rationalpassion ([info]rationalpassion) wrote,
@ 2008-05-10 15:51:00
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Individual Responsibility = Symbolic Racism
Via the racialist--if he's not a full-fledged racist, he's pretty close--Lawrence Auster, I read this from the Washington Post:

"Racial attitudes have changed dramatically in the United States over the past several decades, of course, and overtly racist beliefs are much less prevalent among white Americans of all classes today. But a more subtle form of prejudice, which social scientists sometimes call symbolic racism, is still out there--especially among working-class whites.

"Symbolic racism means believing that African American poverty and other problems are largely the result of lack of ambition and effort, rather than white racism and discrimination. Who holds symbolically racist beliefs? A relatively large portion of white voters in general and white working-class voters in particular, according to the 2004 American National Election Study, the best data available on this topic." (Emphasis added)

Auster's response is uncomfortably close to the truth.  This is awful because the guy takes a truism--that some significant portion of the failures of African American individuals can and should be blamed on those individual African Americans, not on white racism--and uses it to bolster his "racial realist" view that we should not be surprised by African American failures but should rather expect them because people of African descent tend be to stupid failures who resort to crime (or, at minimum, government-mandated affirmative action) because their intellectual inadequacy leaves them incapable of competing with, for example, whites of European descent, on a level-playing field.  Anyway, here's Auster's response:

"Here's what Abramowitz is saying. If you see the fact that blacks are behind, i.e., disproportionately poor, low-achieving, and prone to disorderly and criminal behavior, and if you reasonably infer that it is something about these low achieving blacks--their behavior, character, beliefs, aspirations, abilities--that is keeping them behind, that means that you think that blacks have a defect or inadequacy relative to other groups, which means that you think that blacks are inferior, which means that you're a racist. Therefore the only way not to be a racist is to think that blacks' poor performance is caused by factors that have nothing to do with blacks--factors that are artificially imposed on blacks by racist whites.

"In other words, if you're white, the only way not to be a racist is to believe that blacks perform poorly because they are victimized by white racism. If you reject the idea that white racism is what keeps blacks down, that proves you're a white racist.

"To call whites racist because they reasonably believe that blacks' chronic problems are a function of blacks' own abilities, qualities, and behaviors, is to say that whites are morally defective for using their reason. Which is the same as saying that whites don't have the moral right to use their reason. Which is, obviously, an infinitely worse form of racism than the racism that Abramowitz falsely attributes to whites."

The color-blindness advocated by Martin Luther King in his "I Have A Dream" Speech (putting aside, for the moment, his other views or the position on color-blindness he may have held at other times and that his followers, such as Jesse Jackson, may have once held or may still hold today)  is the only hope this society has of avoiding racial conflict.  To go from racial consciousness--either the kind practiced by Auster or the kind practiced by Jeremiah Wright--to full-fledged racism is no great leap.  Putting aside (for the moment) my policy disputes with Mr. Obama, I fear that his candidacy will inflame race relations in this country like nothing America has seen since the decade-long nightmare that was the 1960s.  This is not to say that Obama should drop out--he has every right to seek the office, and he is well on his way to winning it, or at least the Democratic nomination.  It is to say that his near-monolithic support among blacks and leftists--and the tendency of said supporters to dismiss any criticism of Mr. Obama as stemming from racism and therefore illegitimate--will make this election, whether he wins or loses, awful for American race relations.  A win will leave the opposition enraged that its legitimate criticisms will be dismissed as "symbolic racism" or some such nonsense, while a loss will give Obama's supporters license to charge this country with racism simply for having failed to elect their preferred candidate.  It promises to be an ugly summer and fall...and beyond--there's no end in sight to our misery!  And I haven't even talked about the bad policies advocated by Mr. Obama or his rivals!  When you factor those in...ugh.

UPDATE: As if on cue, Auster follows up the post I linked to with this gem:

"He was speaking of the regrettable reality that black youth ARE, in fact, dangerous."

"Black youth" are individuals and must be judged as such.  In failing to do so, Auster shows that racialism/racism may be a distinction without a difference.  But I want to make a different point: those who suggest that there is a such a thing as "symbolic racism," which consists of judging African American individuals as individuals and refusing to lay every African American individual's failures at the feet of a racist "system" have set up the dichotomy: deny the evidence or be deemed a racist.  I regard this as a false alternative.  That said, if those are the only alternatives, Auster and his ilk will feel justified in regarding themselves as brave truth-tellers when they are anything but.  While left-liberals have succeeded in rendering the Austers of the world politically and socially marginalized--and said marginalization is definitely a good thing--they have done so at the expense of making frank, reality-based conversation about America's racial divide--the kind Mr. Obama said he wanted to start in his speech in Philadelphia--all but impossible.  When it is taboo for a non-left-liberal to state his honest opinions on the subject of race relations--because a left-liberal may call him a racist even if he isn't--don't be surprised when a genuine racist is able to attract an audience for his poisonous nonsense.


(Post a new comment)

Auster is a disaster
(Anonymous)
2008-05-10 11:09 pm UTC (link)
I am an Objectivist and I have been following Auster for a year now since discovering him. Why? Because I fear he his the future of Conservatism. Auster is a Medieval worshiping Christian authoritarian who hates Classical Liberalism; in fact he sees today's left-liberalism as a necessary outgrowth of Classical Liberalism if you can believe it. He hates Darwin and preaches that old saw that Darwin leads to empiricism which destroys morality and absolute truth which must come from a divine source; ie the intrinsic / subjective false alternative. And on top of it all he is a racial determinist (racialist) that bases everything on IQ scores.

Your critique of him is awesome; you nailed it right to the bone especially with this:

""Black youth" are individuals and must be judged as such. In failing to do so, Auster shows that racialism/racism may be a distinction without a difference."

And this:

"That said, if those are the only alternatives, Auster and his ilk will feel justified in regarding themselves as brave truth-tellers when they are anything but."

Auster *does* consider his views as the only alternative to Leftist egalitarianism and if you disagree with him then you get called his favorite swear word: "liberal". He takes the welfare state as a given and never argues for the elimination of it. He just says that blacks and women will always vote for welfare programs because of their nature and therefore they have to be deprived of the franchise. Blacks and Hispanics are low IQ people and will always resort to crime according to Auster. He would never even think of questioning the welfare state or the victimless crime laws or public education, etc. He takes collectivism and altruism as a given. But you want the kicker. He actually has read Ayn Rand and even speaks approvingly of her on some occasions (he obviously hates her atheism). His epistemological confusion is simply breath-taking.

"When it is taboo for a non-left-liberal to state his honest opinions on the subject of race relations--because a left-liberal may call him a racist even if he isn't--don't be surprised when a genuine racist is able to attract an audience for his poisonous nonsense."

Brilliant observation and this is what is happening and will continue to happen. I fear we will see more Austers in the future. The cultural Marxists (left-liberals) have so destroyed race relations in this country via their collectivist ideologies coupled with the welfare state that Larry Auster type Christian authoritarians seem as freedom fighters in comparison unless you are grounded in an individualist philosophy. This connects with what you discussed in your review of Goldberg's Fascism book; namely that there is a false alternative being foisted on the culture. On the one hand there is the egalitarian collectivsts (the Marxist/socialist variety) and on the other there is the non-egalitarian variety (the fascist/theocratic) variety (which Auster falls under - the Christian variety). What is needed is to reject both.

So I am really glad you blogged on this because I think Auster is a phenomenon worth following for Objectivists. He is extremely popular with conservatives and his views are and will continue to influence immigration policy. Auster is the biggest opponent of free immigration that the Conservatives have. He is dangerous and the more so because he exposes the Left-liberal insanity but replaces it with insanity of his own.

Bob Sanders

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Re: Auster is a disaster
[info]rationalpassion
2008-05-11 12:41 am UTC (link)
Apart from your suggestion that he is the future of conservatism, I basically agree with you. As far as that suggestion is concerned, he is one possible future for conservatism. But among the current conservative mainstream, he is persona non grata. And that may mean he never gathers the kind of audience necessary to take over conservatism. Of course, time will tell. And, in any case, I believe he is sufficiently popular that exposing and denouncing him is worth the time.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Auster is a disaster
(Anonymous)
2008-05-12 02:46 am UTC (link)
Perhaps it is more the unilateral certitude of views from conservatives like Auster than their actual philosophy that some find disturbing. This is as if to say that working under a positive conviction that some precepts of society ought to be-- and need to be-- defended should mean that rational thought has been thrown out the window. I would submit that the development and progress of civilizations has never been dependent on any leading moderate, reasonable class of thinkers. It is rather the contrasts between groups and views that sustains a vigorous culture. A perch in the middle of the road is no place to be for thought or action.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Auster is a disaster
[info]rationalpassion
2008-05-12 03:16 am UTC (link)
I'm having difficulty following you, Anonymous Commenter #3. (This appears to be from someone other than Bob Sanders or Doug from Washington state, going by the IP address.)

If you are saying that some people (myself, perhaps?) have a problem with Auster because he's extremely sure of himself and that, contra "moderate, reasonable" people, he's invigorating our society by taking a strong, uncompromising position, I totally disagree. I have no problem with his certitude--"unilateral" or otherwise--it's *what he's certain of* that I find disturbing. I'm not sure what you mean by the phrase "moderate, reasonable class of thinkers"--is this a suggestion that only radicals advance the debate? I agree that that's largely true--moderates are, in historical terms, essentially meaningless in terms of cultural influence. That said, Auster's racial determinism is both radical and poisonous, and poisonous ideas should be exposed, named, and denounced.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Auster is a disaster - [info]phamos818, 2008-05-12 07:44 am UTC
Re: Auster is a disaster - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 08:11 am UTC
Re: Auster is a disaster - (Anonymous), 2008-05-13 12:32 am UTC
Re: Auster is a disaster - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-13 10:04 pm UTC
Re: Auster is a disaster - (Anonymous), 2008-05-13 02:27 am UTC
Re: Auster is a disaster - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-14 12:12 am UTC
Focus on Culture, Not Biology
(Anonymous)
2008-05-11 05:32 am UTC (link)
We need to separate the nonsensical question of biological superiority/inferiority of races from the real issue of cultural beliefs and choices. We cannot conclude, for example, that whites are biologically superior to blacks because white European civilization currently appears to be more powerful than native African civilization. Whites haven't always had the upper hand. And we don't know what the human racial configuration will look like thousands of years from now.

But we can and should examine cultural choices in the form of values and beliefs and how they impact the well being of those who subscribe to them. Jeremiah Wright's sermons condemn white culture as racist (although judging by his actions, the multi-millionaire Reverend has done exceptionally better than most whites). All cultures are a mixed bag of good and bad. While cultures celebrate our identity, culture is ultimately governed by choice, not racial biology. There is much in traditional black culture that I admire as a white person -- music, dance, religious passion which produces great speeches, not to mention excellence in sports. Of course, many blacks have excelled in various professional careers by integrating themselves into the mainstream business culture. But those (like Wright) are doing a great disservice when they teach disadvantaged blacks that they are hopelessly oppressed victims who bear no responsibility for their problems. It's true that inner-city blacks face a tougher environment in general than do suburban whites. But it's also true they can choose to act-out their prescribed roles of victimhood, or they can choose to strive to rise above their problems, making themselves and their communities stronger in the process. We must all at times choose bitterness or life.

Just a few hundred years ago, European Jews were in the position that blacks are in today. The Jews chose to take control of their destiny, and look where they are today. Blacks have the same potential as anyone. What matters is choices.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Focus on Culture, Not Biology
[info]rationalpassion
2008-05-11 05:42 am UTC (link)
Some interesting thoughts from this mysterious stranger--care to identify yourself?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Focus on Culture, Not Biology
(Anonymous)
2008-05-11 05:45 am UTC (link)
I'm Doug from the Seattle area. I stumbled across your blog for the first time tonight. I've taken an interest in the subject of racism lately, and thought I'd throw in my two bits worth.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Focus on Culture, Not Biology - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-11 05:51 am UTC
Re: Focus on Culture, Not Biology - (Anonymous), 2008-05-11 05:57 am UTC
Re: Focus on Culture, Not Biology - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-11 06:06 am UTC
Culture Matters Most
(Anonymous)
2008-05-11 10:50 pm UTC (link)
In my opinion, culture is what counts most in the end. Even if science were to discover that blacks as a population group do possess a lower average IQ score (and this is what scientists like Charles Murray believe) it would be irrelevant politically. Rights are not based on IQ scores but on the possession of a rational faculty. If the culture were more rational and freer, this fact (lower black IQ scores) would have little impact. It might mean at most that there were statistically less blacks as nuclear scientists and perhaps more blacks as independent businessmen.

Think about the barren wasteland that is black and minority culture today. They live in the most socialistic parts of the country, the inner cities. They are educated in leftist, post-modernist indoctrination camps which are the public schools. Said schools butcher their minds from an early age. The popular culture they grow up in consists of gangsta rap and other nihilistic phenomena. They are taught that to embrace European culture is to be an Uncle Tom. What chance do many of them have?

Then a guy like Auster comes along and says that they are basically stupid as a group and have lower "civilizational abilities" than whites. Auster totally discounts culture because he is a racial determinist who believes that race determines culture. He completely rejects the idea of a "self made soul." Your race, your gender, your ethnicity are what define you according to Auster. Defining yourself by using reason is irrelevant to a determinist. Auster is at root an old Southern style racist. He rejects left-liberal egalitarianism to replace it whit what amounts to white Christian non-egalitarianism (authoritarianism).

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Culture Matters Most
[info]rationalpassion
2008-05-11 10:53 pm UTC (link)
More interesting thoughts from Bob Sanders. Thank you, Mr. Sanders.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Culture Matters Most
[info]zarkov01
2008-05-12 03:38 am UTC (link)
"Even if science were to discover that blacks as a population group do possess a lower average IQ score (and this is what scientists like Charles Murray believe) it would be irrelevant politically."

Science has discovered just that. We have 80 years of testing data, and the white-black IQ gap has remained virtually unchanged at one standard deviation. Moreover this gap exists in the black racial groups all over the world. For example, in sub-Saharan Africa the gap is closer to two standard deviations. This is not Charles Murray's opinion, it's data. If the gap were culturally based, then why would it remain invariant for 80 years? Do you think the culture has not changed at all in that time span?

It's true that political rights don't depend on IQ, but that's not the issue and is an obvious attempt to misdirect the argument. For example some public school systems are being sued for having failed their black students. The suit is based on the observed academic performance gap. But this gap is explainable by the IQ gap, and the lawsuits are essentially frivolous. There is also a strong correlation between socio-economic status and IQ. You would therefore expect any defined group with a lower average IQ to exhibit a lower average income.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Culture Matters Most
[info]rationalpassion
2008-05-12 03:43 am UTC (link)
I have no idea who you are zarkov01, but I will be replying to you in a separate post.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Culture Matters Most
(Anonymous)
2008-05-12 05:15 am UTC (link)
"If the gap were culturally based, then why would it remain invariant for 80 years? Do you think the culture has not changed at all in that time span?"

Blacks live under socialism or the welfare state essentially everywhere they exist on the planet. So I don't think you can say what IQ blacks would register if they lived under freer conditions.

James Flynn has some interesting data of children of white German mothers and black US Army fathers. All the children that were raised by their German mothers had higher IQs then those raised by the black fathers. I think this strongly suggests that culture does matter (in this case the European culture of the white German mothers). Also, the "Flynn Affect" suggests that a dysfunctional culture can damage a child's cognitive functioning by as early an age as 7. (Which reminds me of that famous Jesuit expression.) Flynn's research suggests that the brain is a muscle like any other and if it is not exercised it atrophies. I suspect that this is what is happening with blacks raised in the barren wasteland of black culture.

I've read many arguments by "racialists" and I always come away with the feeling that many of them were racists before studying all the "data." I suspect that "racialism" (if that is even a legitimate study) is really a cover for people with preconceived prejudices.

Bob Sanders

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Culture Matters Most - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 06:57 am UTC
Re: Culture Matters Most - (Anonymous), 2008-05-12 09:36 am UTC
Re: Culture Matters Most - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 06:14 pm UTC
Re: Culture Matters Most - [info]zarkov01, 2008-05-12 05:22 pm UTC
Re: Culture Matters Most - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 10:02 pm UTC
Re: Culture Matters Most - [info]zarkov01, 2008-05-13 01:27 am UTC
Re: Culture Matters Most
(Anonymous)
2008-05-12 05:24 am UTC (link)
Here is the link to an archived debate between Charles Murray and James Flynn on the black-white IQ gap:

http://www.aei.org/events/eventID.1425,filter.all,type.upcoming/event_detail.asp#

Very interesting stuff.

Bob Sanders

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Culture Matters Most - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 07:01 am UTC
Re: Culture Matters Most - (Anonymous), 2008-05-12 08:07 am UTC
Re: Culture Matters Most - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 08:43 am UTC
Re: Culture Matters Most
(Anonymous)
2008-05-12 05:01 am UTC (link)
At what point is "culture" the product of something like genes? And coversely, after how many generations of a certain culture do certian adaptations to that culture begin to show? Can you name one - ONE - African-majority nation/society/territory that has achieved anything comparable to European or Asian societies?

I agree that IQs and raw intelligence do not matter much in individual terms, and that rights are not based on such things anyway but on a common humanity, one, by the way, which Auster as a Chistian very much aknowledges. But these things do matter in the aggregate. If there is enough of anything it will begin to manifest itself across society as a whole. There is contradiction between knowing there are plenty of "self-made souls" and the reality, perhaps sadly, that most people are in fact nothing but there race, ethnicity, gender, nationality - what have you. You speak as if everyone were a philosopher; as if the light of reason shinned into every soul. It does not. I shared your view during my years in college and grad school; the real world cured me of the delusion that the average Joe can transcend anything.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Culture Matters Most
[info]rationalpassion
2008-05-12 08:01 am UTC (link)
At what point is "culture" the product of something like genes? And coversely, after how many generations of a certain culture do certian adaptations to that culture begin to show? Can you name one - ONE - African-majority nation/society/territory that has achieved anything comparable to European or Asian societies?

"Something like?!?" Apples are "something like" oranges because they're both fruits, but ultimately they're...apples and oranges! Different things!

and that rights are not based on such things anyway but on a common humanity, one, by the way, which Auster as a Chistian very much aknowledges.

About a month ago, the Christian Mr. Auster wrote the following in praise of the Christian Science Monitor for recognizing that:

"differences of culture and of level of economic development between different peoples are real and will naturally result in conflict, that such differences must be recognized and dealt with, and that the way to deal with them, consonant with the well-being of all parties, is through good fences--through separation. And, finally and most importantly, that such separation between different and incompatible peoples is God's way, as clearly shown in the Bible."

Source: http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/010290.html

So please spare me your remarks about our common humanity. If Mr. Auster thinks humanity is common to us all, why does he say that God Himself wants us separated by "fences," lest we "naturally" conflict with one another?

But these things do matter in the aggregate. If there is enough of anything it will begin to manifest itself across society as a whole. There is contradiction between knowing there are plenty of "self-made souls" and the reality, perhaps sadly, that most people are in fact nothing but there race, ethnicity, gender, nationality - what have you. You speak as if everyone were a philosopher; as if the light of reason shinned into every soul. It does not. I shared your view during my years in college and grad school; the real world cured me of the delusion that the average Joe can transcend anything.

If people are nothing but dumb animals forever divided by their differences, fences will not be enough. Eventually, barring the deliberate dismantling of worldwide communication and transportation, fences will not be enough to keep us from knowing of, and therefore hating, and therefore trying to destroy each other. World wars without end would be the likeliest result of the Auster "separationist" plan for global peace.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Auster Has Taken Notice
(Anonymous)
2008-05-12 04:55 am UTC (link)
Here: http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/010568.html

He responded exactly as predicted. He called us that dreaded word "liberal." And of course he insulted our intelligence by suggesting that we can't read. He doesn't think you responded to his argument when in fact you did by going to its racist essence. But Auster is not very good with essentialization largely because his basic metaphysical starting point is non-reality (ie God, heaven, etc) and his epistemology is so corrupted with faith and "transcendence." Also, Auster is an intrinsicist and as such his definition of objectivity is ultimately truth by revelation (typical rationalist). He is the kind of Conservative that will speak of "faith in reason." All of this is my way of saying that any reply he posts to this thread should be quite a doozy.

Bob Sanders

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Auster Has Taken Notice
[info]rationalpassion
2008-05-12 07:05 am UTC (link)
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/010568.html

I've seen this and will be commenting on it shortly. Thanks for letting me know about it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Auster Has Taken Notice
(Anonymous)
2008-05-12 08:25 am UTC (link)
He responded exactly as predicted. He called us that dreaded word "liberal." And of course he insulted our intelligence by suggesting that we can't read. He doesn't think you responded to his argument when in fact you did by going to its racist essence.

He called you liberal because you are liberal, that is, smug, self-righteous and irrational on questions of race. The term "racist" has all the intellectual content of "yuck." Speaking of a "racist essence" merely adds pretentiousness to the evasion. You can't refute his reasoning or deny his facts, so you label him a heretic in the secure knowledge that your fellow sheep will baa approvingly.

But Auster is not very good with essentialization largely because his basic metaphysical starting point is non-reality (ie God, heaven, etc) and his epistemology is so corrupted with faith and "transcendence." Also, Auster is an intrinsicist and as such his definition of objectivity is ultimately truth by revelation (typical rationalist).

Typical cultist: reassure yourself by repeating the jargon of your cult-leader.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Auster Has Taken Notice
[info]rationalpassion
2008-05-12 09:06 am UTC (link)
I think this is directed at both Bob Sanders and myself. I'll let Bob respond if he wants to. I'll only note my amusement at being called a liberal given the fact that denouncing (left-)liberals is one of my favorite pastimes.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Not racist = Liberal. Good to know!
[info]phamos818
2008-05-12 06:14 pm UTC (link)
You're my favorite.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Not racist = Liberal. Good to know! - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 10:04 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2008-05-12 05:14 am UTC (link)
The IQ debate is over. We have been testing groups for over 100 years and it breaks down something like this: Jews 115 East Asians 105 Whites 100 & Blacks 83. This is a fact, period. IQ is not everything, but it matters. It's important to treat people as individuals, but let's not pretend that this information is not significant.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]rationalpassion
2008-05-12 07:09 am UTC (link)
What's significant about it? I'd really like to know a single rational endeavor in which this data would be useful.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2008-05-12 10:18 am UTC (link)
Someone might pass a law based on the belief that there is no average difference between blacks and whites in intelligence or other behavioral propensities. The law might have several effects:

1. It might make it impractical to use IQ tests in hiring, because IQ tests show results that on average differ by race, so they must be discriminatory.

2. It might turn different levels of hiring by race into evidence (that is very difficult and expensive to rebut) of illegal discrimination, so employers institute quota systems.

3. Etc.

Someone might want to oppose such a law. If he did, it would be rational for him to contest its factual basis, the claim that there are no average differences between blacks and whites.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 06:43 pm UTC
individuals vs groups
(Anonymous)
2008-05-12 11:32 am UTC (link)
Individuals should be judged as individuals, groups as groups. It happens that the violent crime rate among black American youth is around 16-20 times the rate among east-Asian youth, and this is important knowledge for an individual in eg deciding whether to walk through the black neighbourhood or the Chinese neighbourhood. It also has important social policy implications, just as do other group differences in eg propensity to marry, disease rates, educational attainment etc. It's not rational to ignore group differences.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: individuals vs groups - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 06:48 pm UTC
differences
(Anonymous)
2008-05-12 11:40 am UTC (link)
"What's significant about it? I'd really like to know a single rational endeavor in which this data would be useful."

IQ differences are significant for social policy in eg evaluating what educational attainment targets are reasonable, they're important for employers in knowing what they can reasonably expect from their workforce, in health and safety - with a high IQ more complex or risky activity may be carried out safely. They correlate with crime rates, and propensity for alcoholism, family breakdown, and other negatives, which can be affected for better or worse by social policy. For instance, with a higher median IQ more of the population will show propensity for deferred gratification and long term planning, eg they will be more inclined to long term saving; and will respond more strongly to incentives to eg get a pension, get health insurance. The higher the median IQ the better the group can cope with complex form-filling. Conversely, if you wish to target benefits at a group with a lower median IQ, if you make the forms to claim those benefits complex you will get low take up. If tax forms are complicated, more will not be able to fill them in correctly.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: differences - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 08:09 pm UTC
Re: differences - [info]travisp, 2008-05-13 04:20 am UTC
Re: differences - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-14 12:28 am UTC
Re: differences - (Anonymous), 2008-05-13 10:41 am UTC
Re: differences - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-14 01:04 am UTC
Re: differences - (Anonymous), 2008-05-13 06:21 pm UTC
I.Q. - (Anonymous), 2008-05-12 12:34 pm UTC
Re: I.Q. - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 09:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-05-12 05:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-05-12 10:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 11:23 pm UTC
Significant - [info]zarkov01, 2008-05-12 05:14 pm UTC
Re: Significant - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 09:55 pm UTC
Re: Significant - (Anonymous), 2008-05-13 12:16 am UTC
Re: Significant - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-13 09:34 pm UTC
Re: Significant - [info]zarkov01, 2008-05-13 01:15 am UTC
If it is not significant, it will be easy to prove - (Anonymous), 2008-05-12 06:39 pm UTC
Re: If it is not significant, it will be easy to prove - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-12 10:10 pm UTC
Re: If it is not significant, it will be easy to prove - (Anonymous), 2008-05-13 12:10 am UTC
Re: If it is not significant, it will be easy to prove - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-13 08:32 pm UTC
Re: If it is not significant, it will be easy to prove - [info]zarkov01, 2008-05-13 01:44 am UTC
Re: If it is not significant, it will be easy to prove - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-13 11:38 pm UTC
you're denying the undeniable... - (Anonymous), 2008-05-13 12:04 am UTC
Re: you're denying the undeniable... - [info]rationalpassion, 2008-05-13 07:50 pm UTC

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